Building Bulletproof Backs Ep 4 - Back Pain Advice from a Sparky! Michael Renggli

Welcome to the Fourth episode of the Building a Bulletproof Back podcast.

This podcast aims to empower listeners with HOPE that healing is possible when you know how. We discuss strategic tools addressing mental, physical and emotional Health.

To Build your own Bulletproof Back go Here
To  Support this show  - buy me a Coffee !  

I am your host, Marion McRae, a physiotherapist & movement addict on a mission to see the existing model of treating back pain evolve. The current model is broken. It focusses almost entirely on the physical body, neglecting the fact that we are all both thinkers and feelers. When the thoughts in our head, and the the emotions in our bodies are less than optimal, we fail to thrive. 

Our Guest for this episode is Michael Renggli. After 3 Women I thought getting a "blokes" perspective on Back Pain was a good idea. Michael is an electrician (or "sparky" as we call them in Australia) who enjoys falling off ladders, stacking his mountain bike, rock climbing and driving across Australia to explore. He shares his journey with Back Pain and passes on his advice for Building a Bulletproof Back. 

We discuss -
Michael’s tools:

1. Physical - Movement (Pilates, Rock Climbing and Playful Moves)
2. Physical - Manual Therapy - Chiropractic, Myo-fascial Release 
3. Emotional - Meditation

Michael’s Top 3 tips

1. Core work - Pilates, rock climbing, torso strength
2. Movement - FUN ONES (bear runs, crawling, etc)  
3. Find a practitioner who works well with you and your body 

Links :  None
If you resonated with any of today's conversations and think perhaps you may like to Build your own Bulletproof Back, or assist a loved one on their journey -  Please check out my website.

Marion's Top 3 Tips for creating a Bulletproof Back are Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx8e1dMuDJg&t=188s

Transcript

spk_0:   0:07
welcome to building bulletproof backpacks where we read it by May 3. Medical approach to healing Southern back pain, joint physiotherapists and movement at Mary and Ray on a mission to end the back pain. Building bulletproof backs requires missile physical and emotional strategy. Hope is not enough. Listen now if she interviews real life back pain sufferers wet on the way out of the nightmare introduces you to lead a teacher's with powerful tools that can change your life. You can do this. Your body knows how to heal. You just gotta learn how to get out of its way. Now let's get to today's So hey listeners. And on today's episode for I'm gonna finally be chatting to a guy about back pain. I think we've had three women on so far, so I thought it was time to balance out the numbers. For those of you who don't know me, my name's marrying. I'm a physio on a little bit of a mission to ah reduced the back pain epidemic, which in Australia costs $40 billion annually, which is a huge amount of money. And I was only research in the other day in the US it costs about 90 billion annually. So back pain is a big deal. And those of you who are in it nor that it's a big deal. And so the idea of this squad car is that we just chat to people, especially people who are either helping those in pain or people who have been in pain, who found a way up. And so that fits with my introduction to Michael. Michael. Ah, would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners? Tell us just a little bit about you.

spk_1:   2:02
Hi. In by night, Michael. Um, Sparky in Margaret River at the moment. I've been living here for about 20 years. Um, I got in town about 98 on my way back to the East Coast and because it's such a nice town. Ah, stayed. And there's a lot of fun for me to do in this town for activities that I like to do. So there's a lot of our rock climbing and mountain biking in the area. So it's the town that really suits May.

spk_0:   2:35
Yeah. We're pretty lucky. Antley.

spk_1:   2:37
Yeah, it Z um, yeah. You know, like travel traveling round Australia. Um, yeah, it's ah very special, special place in this country.

spk_0:   2:47
Yeah, and I mean, Big Sparky would certainly place a few demands on your back on shore.

spk_1:   2:52
Yeah, he had a few things you like crawling through roofs. And, um, just sometimes you're in, um, just in positions that move your center of gravity around. So there's just not like, yeah, I like like you're standing well, sitting down or anything like that in Europe. You're only saw your bending over underneath things. And, yes, it's all fun and games.

spk_0:   3:20
Imagine. Oh, would you like to go ask Give us a bit of a background on your back story?

spk_1:   3:26
Yes, sir. Mark. Mark, I think my back story is, um, over a long period of time. So it probably outside it started winos was young and, um, and having to sleep in one of those old bids that have the spring base and just a mattress on top. And those spring bases when we know when they like, we're out on, you lie in the bed. Now you're pretty much touching the floor. And the way that my folks are fix that was to just put an old door underneath it. So from a bad bed to, like, a solid bed. And what mother Comfortable,

spk_0:   4:14
how we love their ingenuity, though. Whatever works A

spk_1:   4:17
yeah, whatever works. And that's what you gotta do, you know, through those times. And then, um and then after a Siri's off, say, falling off letters, a bad habit of falling off letters when I was young. So, um, knocking myself out falling out of trees, Um, and a few things like that, um, I just lead to probably the way my my back Watson Probably a bad. Um, I had really bad balance. And that's probably wife a felon or those trees during the time as well.

spk_0:   4:56
Wow. And did you break bones in any of these falls?

spk_1:   4:58
Uh, no, no, no, no. Myself. I had a few times, but I didn't. Not at all. No, I didn't. Didn't break break any any bone, so I was pretty

spk_0:   5:10
lucky. Your spine. It sounds like your spine copped a few traumas in a few different places over a few number of years.

spk_1:   5:19
Yeah. Yep, yep. So at the in my like teens, um, it was difficult sitting and reading a book. I had to, um It would set down and read a book Awards move my neck around. So my neck was soon to be locked up all the time.

spk_0:   5:41
And then sort of What treatments? What therapies? Were you even trying treatments and therapies of that stage.

spk_1:   5:49
Now it wasn't wasn't trying. No, I didn't. Really, Um I just thought it's just one of those things. And it wasn't till I got to Melbourne. Then, um, then a friend Sit on, you know, you should say so you call her practice? Ah, um, a soldier scholar I got for for a couple of years, and and that was that was really good. Um,

spk_0:   6:11
yeah,

spk_1:   6:12
he rectified, you know, like a few problems gave me some nice structures to do that. I'm, like, stretched out the meridian lines and things like that. So, um, that was that was really helpful. But just like I think probably from all those incidents when I was younger, I just needed that little bit of a body maintenance Aziz years

spk_0:   6:40
going a fairly intensive period of therapy to sort of I'm wind maybe will be, Ah, all the things that got a little bit twisted, a little bit kinked and a little bit. You know, her beach. You righted. So you found relief with the chiropractic. So then was it'll? I heard. Is that the end of this story?

spk_1:   7:00
Uh, it's never, never the end of the story. Um, So, yes, I did that for for for a few years, and I'm not quite sure. Probably your be good person to ask this. So like, if you before those incidents accidents that that I went through in the past, Um, And if my back car like you might my spine just color goes at all at a wet back a little bit. Um, do the muscles have have a memory? So, like, Like, if you are, like, help back back? Yeah, I like to know. So you're back nearing become straight. Put back into position again with the muscles. Um, push them back out.

spk_0:   7:50
Well, it's a good question. I've heard that one before. What I think happens is that when you have an injury on, it hurts. Your body learns a new way to move around that injury, and long after the injury is healed, your brain has become accustomed to that new wave moving so that even if you visit someone, and I long you up, so to speak. Your brain hasn't been lined up. It's still operating off the old model. And so it sometimes just reverts to what it knows. And so alignment and movement patterns, a brain based. And when we ultra structure, unless we alter it in the brain, it kind of doesn't stick very often. So that that's a generalization, but certainly for long standing issues. Yeah, the tissue has a memory. The brain has a memory. And unless you affected that, those levels, um, it's often very short lived.

spk_1:   8:47
Okay, yet? Yes. Fight. Yeah. Um, and then thing after I come back, Yeah, it was pretty good. Um, getting strong. I was doing, um, a lot, a lot of rock alarming. So that's what's keeping my body, um, body strong. Um, they don't

spk_0:   9:08
have to be one of the best movements for a back A. Because it's call. It's opening up your hips and a lot of hip mobility. It's nonwhite bearing, and you get some good traction as well. When you hanging off one arm and moving your weight left and right. It's actually I think, one of the best movements anyone in back pain can sort of take up.

spk_1:   9:30
Yeah, I found I found climbing What's good for my back? Because it just help me stretch in every direction that's coming. Yoga, run, rock.

spk_0:   9:41
Just what you need for your sparky activities.

spk_1:   9:44
Yeah, pretty. Pretty much. It cannot help. Help me. Ah, a few incidences. You like climbing over things in there with eels? Um, so that was good. Um ah. Found sitting down, um, driving like that. I drive long distances and sit down. That that tended to, um, yeah, I hurt my back, and I just had to come, like, keep on, Do you know, just stricture day out. Really, Um, probably do is like some simple yoga poses and things like that. Just things that have picked up along the way.

spk_0:   10:22
Yeah. So it's like you were trying a lot of physical things, you know, and it was responding to those things, But perhaps, you know, maybe it kept coming back. At what point did you or did you ever explore whether your emotions were involved or whether your thought patterns were keeping you in it?

spk_1:   10:42
Um, yeah, that was probably, um, maybe a couple of years ago, when it was still living in Melbourne. Um, yeah, like I thought it was slight. Yeah, just pretty chilled out and everything else. But then someone told me you're just stressed out, and that's what's making you bet your back hood even more. And I go like, Oh, maybe like him stressed out like sometimes you feel, you know, like like like, um okay, but, um but I don't know your like I usually take someone else to tell you what what you are. So

spk_0:   11:21
yeah, that is so interesting because we can contact, you know, what's happened. We've all got used to being stressed that we now feel normal in a stressed state, and now we kind of have a reference point of a baseline level of stress as normal, and yet our body physiologically is stressed, but we've adapted to being that way. And so when you start tapping into some physiological markers like your breath right or your blood pressure, you can actually start to track. And most people you will have evidence that even if they're sitting in front of you saying now, I'm really quite relaxed, their heart rate will be off the charts and their breath pattern will be off the charts, but that's become their new normal. So it's such an interesting thing, isn't it? That we don't realize with stressed, which sounds crazy?

spk_1:   12:14
Yeah, pretty much like it. It's what? What? What? We are, you know all the time. So So you just you just don't don't realize that you could just get into that that habit? Um, yeah. And therefore for so long that you just think think that that is the new normal.

spk_0:   12:32
So what did you do when you sort of thought maybe stress is playing into this, And the stress we know creates the cortisol, which feeds the inflammation. So your body, you know, if you do have any vulnerable areas and old injuries if the blood circulating through the miss full of cortisol and you know that creates inflammation, which it just got to find somewhere toe stick. So, you know, Yeah, it's a really valid ah, pathway to ongoing body aches and pains. So what did you How did you approach that when you sort of thought maybe maybe the seasoning a part of my back kind story?

spk_1:   13:07
Um, yeah, I started probably going down that meditative road. Um, back back then I was reading your, like, getting more into Buddhism on and things like that. So So if that just like doing Yeah, just just just no more meditation, Um, doing more yoga, which were never used to do a lot of stretching, but just like more more yoga, You know, let's say I'm not quite sure What are the different types are. But, you know, the more stretching type, the more you know, just like meditation, yoga and everything else. Ah, and that just like And that just really chilled me out. So and it was great because you live from from where? Where I waas just like really? Um, yeah, I suppose like, slightly scripts. But like, I still like I was using that stress, you know, like just to keep on going your 100 miles an hour, just like just a really showed out, surely out zone and and pretty much the love of the pain did did go go away after that, Aziz. Well,

spk_0:   14:23
well And so what I have observed is that there's more blocks struggle with persistent back kind and women, Um, and what I've really noticed in the private group over and over again. Is women joining up to my private Facebook group in an attempt to find some solution that's going to help their husbands? Pine? What are you two questions? What you take on? Maybe why men seem to suffer more than women with persistent back pain. And the second you know, what would you set of those women trying to help their husbands?

spk_1:   15:03
Oh, um, well, it's faras. Yeah, like it might be just the way. Yeah, like people just like the ingrained thing off. Just, like just put up with it. Um, yeah. Just like like the male ego off. Okay, Yeah, Just like you just just just put pushed through it. You get good over and everything else and stuff like that. It's, um But what? What could someone say to them too? Get? It's hard because you don't want to. Let's tell someone you need to get over and do something because then that you, like, sometimes triggers. Um, you're a defensive emotion. Emotions. Is Aziz. Well, so I'm not I'm not quite sure what you could what you could say. What specific thing you could say to someone to get him to, like, get over it. Oh, ain't yellow to try something else, try to guide them. I think I think I think that that's the only way.

spk_0:   16:16
Yet it's a really ah, it's certainly something are experienced for years, you know, in in my marriage was a partner with chronic back pain. And, you know, I guess it's attributed a lot to you know what I'm now doing, but and some grateful for that. But it's really interesting that as women, we take on our partners back pain as our problem. And I was really interesting what you said about why. I mean, maybe they do have that pressure on them to be not broken. And so they carry on and they carry on sometimes sort of making the problem worse and pushing through. And maybe, you know, they're the breadwinner, and they've got to keep working and keep the income coming in. So I kissed. I feel a little bit more backed into a corner. In terms of that, Maybe that can't rest. Maybe. Ah, there's the whole ego thing. It's an interesting thing. Hey,

spk_1:   17:10
Yeah, Yeah, like it is. Yeah, I guess. You know, like if you get injured like that. Like there's times when, um from yellow off. They had an injury. Um, enough just color. Just just just pushed through it. Just keep on going. Um aspired. That's part on the reading when I was younger. Ah, a lot of mountaineering stories where we go as you like. You have had serious injuries, but they still have Teoh get themselves off off the mountain and things like that aspires, aspires a good one. Waas. I think it might have been the first time I saw you when when a step My mountain black and my back, which really saw. And so instead of calling someone, I thought I'd just ride my bike home with push it, push it home. But it hurt me back to map so that it cannot write right at home. And then and then I saw you. And and Yeah, when you get like, I think you need to go get a next right.

spk_0:   18:12
Actually, I remember that now because you was so acute where the handlebars that think went into your back from when I tops them. I thought, you know, you had every sign of fractures in your back and I thought, man, surely if he's fractured his back, he wouldn't be riding his bike to a consultation or, you know, and you know, hints what we sent you off for. Extras. And I remember this because you came back in with the X rays and I read the X ray report. It said you were clear. And then I went to touch your back again, and it had the same level of acuteness, and I thought her This is just not right. This doesn't add up. And when I then looked at the films, it was clear is day. I think you could even see the transverse processes were cracked. And you know that for me was a big lesson in terms off. My God, the patient can say they fractured back. And yet the radiography are has no documented this or noted this, and it's called this back. I'm no abnormality detected, and I think that is a riel certainly is a practitioner. It's a lesson that always trust your instincts. Doesn't matter what a scan report says. If your gut instinct is this is not good. I shouldn't be pressing on this. Then you don't and you know. Also, we need to just bear in mind that sometimes our scan results convey false, negative or false positive meaning that can get it wrong. So clinical skills always outweigh diagnostic findings in my book. But not you know, how amazing that you I think it was. He transverse processes. So as long as you rested, embraced, they could heal. Um, and so we can break out back and still be back And cycling a Bach crazy. Hey.

spk_1:   20:03
Yeah, like it hurt. It hurt. You know that that day, Of course, A lot. But then it did settle down. Ah, federal felt like yell it from from that level of pain, it did settle down a lot. So I didn't really think Think that much of its Ah, until you started sticking your finger finger in it. And then they heard again. But it's something that off had, um, probably troubled with Aziz. Well, so, like, people like, I go and see somebody in the gala. How much does it hurt? And I went well, it's always kind of hurt hurt, so it's kind like normal. Yeah, like if someone had, um yeah, like not not not say that injury by, like how my back back usually is with yellow, how it feels when it hurts or what used to hurt. Um, they say, You know, if someone just had that you, they probably would think that it's like right high on that register. I'm not form A. It's just it's just low because I'm just used to it, uh, and just doesn't Doesn't

spk_0:   21:15
that raises another point? It off often thought that, too, that some people obviously have a higher pain threshold than others and water. In actual fact. I think that works against them because they can put up with the pain. They tend to do it for a lot longer than someone who has a very low pone for shoulder who, you know, we're not used to any pain and they get a little bit and they go, you know, bouncing up and down to get action to get rid of it. So you know these pine thresholds, things, activities, air interesting and certainly we know that your pain threshold is a unique thing. Women tend to have a high one than men, but that's that's biological. I think that's so we can give birth to babies? Absolutely. If you haven't slipped or if you're anxious or worried, your perception of pain becomes heartened. So a pine that you normally write as three out of 10 becomes a night out in. So you know, all these things play into that old pint threshold, and patients hide it when you ask, Give me a number out of 10. How bad is it? A lot of people struggle with that.

spk_1:   22:23
Yeah, because like, what? What? What? It's 10 yet again like, ah, that read like, pretty. You don't know what what what the scale is that some people can, like, Click on to it early, but yeah, what's 10? Is it like being on Fire? I Trivia scale? Or but buddy, like being being you, like if you If you used to know what the pain is, then then it just becomes like numb.

spk_0:   22:50
Yeah, and all the only race and we're asking. We're just trying to get an indicator of isn't mild, moderate or severe, and sometimes that's a better question. And also, sometimes we try and use it as an objective marker of whether you're responding well to something or not. So sometimes if I have a movement session and someone's I'll say, You know what number we sitting on now Before we start moving, you know, when they might be on three on, then you know that the idea is that as we move, we don't mind an elevation of one or two. But we don't want to go beyond that with any movement that we do. So you know, it can be uses that language tool. But it's It's a pretty open ended one. I agree.

spk_1:   23:28
Yeah, it's just Yeah, I suppose that comes down to the communication being able, Teoh, like, for you communicate with the client and the client communicating with you off off the history and how much how much pain that the vein in And if they've just gotten used to it?

spk_0:   23:47
Yeah. Talking about, um, use of medication in your journey, you know what sort of drugs do Detroit Did you find any useful? Where do you end up on that whole aspect of managing backbone?

spk_1:   24:00
Um, usually try not to take, um, much medication at at all. Um, I usually like to try to feel unlike to feel what my body is doing. So, um, yeah, a lot of foot for painkillers. Just probably something that would, um, help reduce the swelling. Actually, actually, that that's that's probably mine thing that that if I do have some, um, if you do have medication, it would just be to reduce the swelling. I was then then the swelling. Um, yeah, creates, you know, we'll create stiffness and just make make make the body the body hurt hurt more. And I've come like, more put onto that mawr with my, um was not reasons to use to go now, but But my my foot injury that when I when I fractured my heel Um ah. Found when? Yeah, If there was a lot of swelling around, um, it just might make it more stiff, just like and just made Kurt heard, if more.

spk_0:   25:15
Mm hm. Is that there's a fun line, isn't there between protecting a nervous system from ongoing pine? Um, with using a few medications and generally making yourself feel emotionally did happier. And no, I would get out there and do some things that make you feel a bit more normal and happy. Ah, versus taking this purist approach of not taking any pools this summer, there's gonna be of good balance there. And, um, it's up to the individual, isn't it? But drowning your pain and medications does take away your body's ability to feel and, yeah, I think it's a middle middle of the road, um, outcome on that one. I think it's smart the way you play it.

spk_1:   25:57
Yeah, yeah, it's really, really a personal way off off off how you can deal with which pain as well, like. Like if you can't if you're unable to deal with it often hurts a lot. Um, I'm a lot last road trip I like, You know, I had had a lot of Yeah, I took all the tangles that that the hospital gave me and had them just as back up. And there's a few times that at night I don't take them. If I If I went on a five k walk, Um, you know, like my foot was just like throb so And I just had to take them just Teoh just so could pretty much sleep. So

spk_0:   26:40
yeah, and your foot is a different story to your back, even like the body part. And the story of the injury is different, isn't it. I mean, if you've cracked report or your your bone and you're gonna walk five K's on it, there's a fair chance that's going to stir up something. And rather than not moving all, sometimes you take the joy of five K's of walking. If it's only gonna cost you two Panadol. That's kind of, you know, a trade off that I would feel these probably the emotional value of having fun kind of outweighs any of the negative effects of a few peels, in my opinion. So, yeah, drug for a reason. We just obviously don't overuse them or use them to heavily or use them And nothing else.

spk_1:   27:22
Yeah. Yeah. Like with With With back a back complaint. You need to you need to keep on moving off. I find Find us. Well, so, like, if it's if it's walking, um, just just just keep keep your body body moving. Um, that way you're getting that no blood circulating, which would really which which is key and just that mental. Um, yeah. I just think being relaxed mitt mentally it's money much as you can, because that is another. Um, yeah, I like fight. So So you're fighting you taken be fighting the pain. But then you're fighting the hatred of the pain, Aziz. Well, and it could become gay like, Ah, a vicious circle at times.

spk_0:   28:17
Yeah, and that's where the head Gombe comes in her.

spk_1:   28:20
And that's when the head cames coming, coming. So So you just feel like you are You're hurting so good. Like if you're in pain, you just want to stop. But then sometimes you can't stop because we'll just, like, make you make make make make the injury go longer and injustice worse. Worse at the end. So

spk_0:   28:45
yeah, So if you, um top street tips for someone in back pain, go back to your deepest, darkest moment when you were in it and you were struggling and you thought, man, this is it. I'm gonna be here forever. What would What do you wish your future self would turn to you in that moment and say, Michael, do these three things and you're gonna be fun.

spk_1:   29:10
Um, I think core work is its key. But when I got to purse, I did a little bit of Pallotti's, um and that made like how much like I was, How limber awards and able able to stretch and things like that. But even though, like I did a lot climbing my core work, Paul was was not to them was absolutely rubbish. So which are quite surprised with that as well. So, um, coming, I think What? What? But help my back back a lot in your, like, this is over light, like decent six month period or even mawr waas. Um, what was a lot off? I'm cold work, but but moving. So like in certain, you know, not doing so Not moving as in, say, like doing your sit ups or doing planks, but like, but like being collecting a semi static position, but then moving the rest of your body or moving, moving your legs and everything else. Um, and I cannot go into that that that that call, um, exercises. And that's kind, like looking, looking at, like core exercises for for rock climbing. So So when we're when you climbing, you're just not not an aesthetic position. You're all always moving and thinks things like that. Um, so, yes, I called core work. Yeah, I like cool. Um, you know, like torso. I can't even call it like torso strength. Okay, You're doing because people think think the core just just like your stomach. But then then you got your back and your upper back and everything is is a part off everything else. So, um, and the other one probably isn't like his movement. Um, I think I was Alexey. Um

spk_0:   31:15
Alexa.

spk_1:   31:16
Alexa. Like the legacy? Yes. I did some classes with her on, and I think that and that that really help Help me as well. Probably more than what? What are probably I realized at the start, But then just like, just like just having having fun. Yeah, I like it. It's just like kids movements. Yeah. Yeah, like probably as an adult. Um, sometimes you're just thinking yourself too serious to do to do, like, like like like like like your beer runs and things like that, you know, walked walking on your like, your hands and feet ing across the grass here like, look stupid, but like, you know, like you having fun. And that's what probably kids do. And that's how they usually so nimble. So

spk_0:   32:05
I think what you're touching on it's the difference between call work and movement They're quite different, aren't they? So called work is, you know, designed to active I t muscles in your body where his movement is, um, the ability to shift white. It's the ability to spin Roll Park spring. It has different qualities to it. And, you know, they both overlap in some areas, but, um, yeah, it movement is a quality or askew. It's like an intelligence that we are the have we don't have And some people dances, for instance, have beautiful movement intelligence, but they may have no call. So, you know, you can't predict either from someone until you assess it.

spk_1:   32:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much ended two different. But in there you like then they combined their pretty much, much essential, I think. And then I despise the 3rd 1 You're lovable people. Like with that kind of be listen to. This is very find. You're gonna find someone, someone that works well with you. So with with me, Yeah, Like like I like my like I like, don't do so had Colorado's e I just want to like if if I'm feeling feeling and I just want to be put straight, um And throughout the years off scene like in traveling When you're on your road trip to your like, you get, like, driving a lot and you just wanna And if you can feel my body is out and I need to like they put put back back into position, um, that there's good ones and there's not good one. So you're just gonna find one step

spk_0:   33:47
writing any know? How do you tell if someone little bad

spk_1:   33:53
you don't until they until you see them. So, um,

spk_0:   34:00
until you've had a treatment and maybe your body

spk_1:   34:03
until you have had a treatment and they just didn't didn't suit suit you, so probably good. Another good example. Maybe eight years ago when when I went road trip back over east to go climbing and when I when I got there, I just felt really my back just felt really twisted and hurt did hurt a lot. And I got an X ray done and and from from the back, you could just see much much. My spine was was just like like a slut s, um it was wasn't, you know, like on the side profile in your like respect. Have you curve a trip from the back. Yeah, like, it should be pretty straight. So I went to see somebody, and they just, like, dicked around and didn't do anything. Really? And left the next day, I had, like, pins and needles in my feet, things like that, and trying to, like, climb and not being able to feel your fate was not a good thing. So and then then I found at another town, um, in Horsham. Like like, you know, this old school Caro. Um, and he put put me strike, and, um and I felt like a 1,000,000 box.

spk_0:   35:15
Yeah, right. I guess it's, um when you're moving to a new town, you know, word of mouth probably asking the locals.

spk_1:   35:25
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's hard. Uhm oppose. Yeah, but then I suppose that you like you can after locals in, um, this person might work for their injury, but they might not work for your injury. Yeah, a swell. So I suppose. Probably don't. What I'm also saying is that, um, that an injury is very our personal too to your body. Yeah, well, that that that's what I think. Like it's very personal. And then and yet so some things work and some things,

spk_0:   36:05
but also my also, you have a clear belief about what you need for your body. So from listening to your your belief is you don't want them to dick around. You gotta get in there and e like something thing moves shoved or pushed on dso with your believe system. If someone came in with, you know, a softer approached, your belief probably wouldn't allow that toe have any influence because, you know, you've built up a belief over time of what works for you, and it's probably correct. I'm not. But, you know, all these police we have about what we need for ourselves affects the outcome off the person that we see, which is, you know, an interesting idea in itself is no.

spk_1:   36:50
Yeah, yeah. And also, you're like so with that sort of my yeah, my my back sore. Like I've got my go to probably, like car practical. But then you're like then then I'm very open to no other treatments. You get your seat, see around like I was like, what? The fashion treatment and stuff like that, which is really good, good as well. So no

spk_0:   37:17
waiting it. Do you think you're always gonna need to rely on a bit of that side? Can you feel spawn?

spk_1:   37:23
Um, I think, Yeah, I think I think I do. I could, like, look at mine, because I said as, like, a structure, like, more like a car saying a yours need to like, yeah, maybe you will Bearings done here and there and think things that you just need a like, bit of alone. Agent on. Do whatever, but you don't you doing? They need some structural help here and there, depending on how your body what's what's happened to your body in the past. So I think I think all those things that happened throughout my life from from my younger years that you're going back a couple of questions that have been involved in a swell. But there's a lot of things that probably have helped. Um, yeah, I just wear the vertebrae down a little bit. Ah,

spk_0:   38:19
I think I think having they on treatment here or there, but most you feel good and feels like you're nurturing your system. And caring for your body is a great investment of dollars. I think if you're turning up every single week and saying no improvement. Then there's something really wrong about that. But you sound like you've got the sweet

spk_1:   38:36
spot. Ah, yeah, you can you can you can I overdo it? Otherwise, that would just, like, make make make make it worse. But but yet, like pay, people need to treat their body like like that probably would Yeah, no, you're, like, say, in anything else and and just just give it a two. You know, if even if it's just like a massage or anything else, just just like traded and, you know, just like you have yet it will love it and just keep on going

spk_0:   39:03
because we only get one body for life. I and I would argue. Sometimes people are more than happy to drop if you grown on their car when it breaks down on. Yet when they're back breaks down, they quibble about, you know, 80 bucks to see a Mr saw, a physio, and you think, My God, this is your motor vehicle for life and you are questioning an investment of a few 100 bucks. It just we don't value our boarding sometimes. Know everyone. Some people value their bodies immensely, but it is now one machine for life. And the earlier we start taking care of it better. It will respond and serve us for the rest of their life.

spk_1:   39:42
Yeah, pretty much. And when it when it gets light, yeah, starts playing up and breaks down. Um, your life loss lost can be a bit of a struggle.

spk_0:   39:56
I will. Look, they're great tips. I appreciate having the male perspective and, uh, you know, congratulations on your journey with your spine. It sounds that you have tested it to the IMF degree, and it keeps responding beautifully to what you're investing in it. And, uh, yeah, thanks for coming on the show. And thanks for discussing your story in passing on your wisdom to any of those people that are still sort of on the journey.

spk_1:   40:25
No guarantee it. Thanks. Thanks for having me and Conway Teoh the things open up again and I can get a bit more treatment.

spk_0:   40:33
Anything you need, it might beautifully.

spk_1:   40:35
Ah, yeah, yeah. To foot the foot scholars playing up a little bit

spk_0:   40:39
way Go rest up. And thanks again for your time, Michael. Really appreciate it.

spk_1:   40:46
OK, thanks. married by

spk_0:   40:49
Okay, listeners, That was episode number four. Ah, we've had, you know, after 50 downloads, which, you know, it doesn't sound like match. And my daughter was less than impressed When I had said we got to 25 downloads, she'd Mom, she's banking on a 1,000,000 so she might have to wait a little while, but, uh, please share the podcast. If you feel anything, he might help someone in back pine. And remember, we're really just selling the message that to heal a spon you need to come in it with mental, emotional and physical tools. And, uh, you can find all of those in the back program eight wigs online that have put together many thanks for listening. And we shall see you for the next episode. Billy both backs to learn more about all areas. You need a week building up a little back more like horse really does. You will receive a set by set system providing Miss and most societies for snatching your back pain to occur A nothing like this anywhere else from the market become your own hero.