Building Bulletproof Backs Ep 28 - Back Pain, Betrayal & Breakthroughs: A Raw Healing Story with Bianca-Jaye Pearce

Welcome to the 28th episode of the Building a Bulletproof Back podcast.

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This podcast aims to empower listeners with HOPE that healing is possible when you know how. We discuss strategic tools addressing mindset, movement & emotional health.

I am your host, Marion McRae,  physiotherapist, psychedelic assisted therapist,  & movement addict on a mission to see the existing model of treating back pain evolve. The current model is broken. It focusses almost entirely on the physical body, neglecting the fact that we are all both thinkers and feelers. When the thoughts in our head, and the emotions in our bodies are less than optimal, we fail to thrive.

In Episode 28 of the Bulletproof Backs Podcast, Marion sits down with Bianca — a courageous young woman who went from months bedridden with severe back pain to rebuilding her life through patience, persistence, and self-compassion.

Bianca shares her deeply personal journey of numbness, loss of mobility, over-medication, and the emotional toll of pain. More importantly, she offers hope to anyone currently struggling. Her story is one of radical acceptance, learning to do the “next best thing,” and using simple routines to regain strength and confidence.

Bianca’s Top 3 Back Pain Tips:

1. Do the Next Best Thing – Progress isn’t perfect; even the smallest step counts.
2. Radical Acceptance – Acknowledge your reality without judgment to move forward.
3. Build Small Routines – Daily goals, no matter how tiny, restore control and confidence.

If you’re seeking inspiration and practical wisdom on your back pain journey, this episode is not to be missed.

We’ve just launched a brand new fan mail feature on our podcast! Now, you can drop us a comment, share the podcast with your friends, or ask us any burning questions you have about back pain. I’ll be taking those questions and answering them over on our Bulletproof Backs YouTube channel. 

So, don’t be shy! Send in your comments and questions, and let's keep the conversation going. Your feedback means the world to us, and we can't wait to hear from you!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

We'll see you next time. and offer a beacon of hope to all those seeking relief and a brighter future.

SPEAKER_01: 0:48

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Backs podcast. I am very fortunate to have a really courageous young lady join me today. Her name's Bianca. Bianca, thank you for joining me. I know this is probably a little bit outside your comfort zone, as it is for most people, but yeah, I'm just really grateful that you've carved out some time to share your story today. Can you just give us a quick intro to who you are?

SPEAKER_02: 1:18

Yeah, so I am not... super good at doing the, hi, this is me. This is how I like to present myself to people. But I think overall, I'm just, I'm 34. I have two cats that I love probably a little bit too much. I spend a lot of time at home. I'm very introverted, but I do spend a lot of time reading and I'm super passionate about mental health. I am a mental health peer worker as well and I'd like to really work with people who have lived experience in the mental health sphere while also working a lot in admin and just the general health sphere.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

Yeah, great. And I will say that you do a bit of admin for Movement Solutions, which is kind of how our paths have crossed. And honestly, I think you're one of these people, hope you don't mind saying me this, that There's layers to you and as you sit and get to know you, there's a lot there that's very cool that doesn't get shown on the first sitting and it slowly surfaces over time. But I've really enjoyed your humour, particularly. I think you're a very funny person, which I don't know. I don't know why I'm saying that, but I do. I find in our team chats the things you say quite entertaining. Sorry. Sideline, but you do have a back pain story. So let's get onto that and yeah, kick us off. Tell us a little bit about how you came to be in pain. I

SPEAKER_02: 3:11

think

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

that

SPEAKER_02: 3:11

I'd always had a lot of nondescript back pain growing up. I had, I suppose what we considered a traumatic birth that essentially kind of jarred my spine in the birth earth canal. And so growing up from that point, the doctors had always said, oh, she's got a little bit of a weaker spine or her bones aren't quite as dense as they should be or things like that. So I had a lot of pinched nerves and just general nondescript back pain growing up. And I think I slipped a couple of discs in high school and that sort of thing. So it was always just sort of, I always had been on random painkillers growing up and things like that. So it wasn't until probably October of 2022 where I had probably the biggest sort of catalyst like back injury that really molded my, I would say, relationship with pain. And again, it wasn't, there was no immediate injury or specific situation. It was literally I was cleaning my car out and felt sort of a twinge in my lower back and thought, oh, you know, I might be in a little bit of pain tomorrow. And then that... Sort of the next day I woke up and I had a lot of numbness down my left leg and I thought that that was a little bit weird and a little bit outside of what normally happens. And then I think by the third day I had no feeling from sort of the waist down and was experiencing just the sort of lower back spasms and leg spasms that I can only be described as being electrocuted over and over again. And that, yeah, that was sort of a period of three days where by that point, after the three days, there was no position that was sort of safe that wouldn't set off those spasms and I couldn't feel my legs at all. I couldn't walk. I could barely pull myself up. There was not, it was a very traumatic and very sudden, shift in movement.

SPEAKER_01: 5:50

And you definitely feel it was related to sort of an odd movement you did cleaning out the car?

SPEAKER_02: 5:55

Whether or not it was specifically that or if it had just been sitting there waiting and it was just sort of a weakness or a nerve in the wrong spot that I... pressed on the wrong way and then it just all crumbled from there. It was definitely, I don't believe it was caused by the movement, but I think it definitely contributed to it.

SPEAKER_01: 6:22

And so what did you do? I mean... Can't feel your legs, being electrocuted. What does someone in that situation do?

SPEAKER_02: 6:32

That

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

probably– I

SPEAKER_02: 6:36

was working for a medical centre at the time, so I was able to– and that happened on a weekend. So I was able to at least speak to a doctor in like sort of the days afterwards and– They had no real answers for me. There was a real period of fear and unknown, especially the first few weeks of that. I didn't do a lot. There was nothing that could be done. I wasn't really given any immediate advice. No one really knew what to do. So I think for the first week... I just sort of lay in bed and hoped that the feeling would come back and it was just a really bad pinched nerve or something. But every time those spasms would come on and that pain that would shoot through me, it felt and looked like a seizure when it was happening. It was horrible. And every time that happened, a little bit more of me was more afraid that nothing, that this was not going to change. So I think for the first two weeks, definitely, I just lay in bed and hoped that it would just go away. Yeah. And did it?

UNKNOWN: 8:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:01

Did it respond to that? Did it respond to just rest and doing not too much?

SPEAKER_02: 9:07

Rest, yes. I think there was definitely a lot of panicked energy in me. So there wasn't a lot of rest. There was a lot of me physically fighting the pain and the positions that I had to sort of lie in to relieve the pain and to not spasm, basically. So there was more so, I think, within me very much, this was more of an act of defiance of me lying and not doing anything more than resting and alleviating the pressure that was clearly on my spine. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

And did you end up having scans and all the rest of it, Bianca?

SPEAKER_02: 9:59

Yeah, I had quite a few CTs. So I think I had quite a few CT scans and x-rays. I was never able to afford an MRI, so I never was able to get that imaging done. But the main problem was that I was not able to physically get to an any of the imaging places to get the scans done. I could not leave my bed. I couldn't get in a car. I couldn't sit in a car. Sitting was probably the worst position I could be in. It would kick off. It was far too painful. It didn't work. I had to wait for Until I was able to, until I was basically strong enough to hold myself up to travel. So it took at least, I think a month or two before I was able to get any scans done in me, like as soon as possible. So there was also that sudden loss of mobility as well.

SPEAKER_01: 11:07

So that brings up a few things, you know, like affordability and how it impacts people's pain rehab pathways and, you know, just basic things. I think, were you living alone at the time? or did you have support I

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

had so I was living with my housemate at the time and I was very lucky that she was able and her extended family as well actually were able to drive me around as much as they did because it was something I would not have been able to do I know that a few months a few weeks in I was able to get like a home visit physio which was really helpful but all she was able to do was the spasming was happening so frequently was just like the barest of manual manipulation until the nerves calmed down enough for her to do anything and for me to be able to do any sort of exercise. So I was stuck at home.

SPEAKER_01: 12:09

It's also really hard from a physio perspective to assess someone properly who's in that level of acute pain. You know, if you can't move, and every direction is a shooting electric pain, it's almost impossible to put someone through the movement tests and all the tests that we normally do to establish what structure's involved, what's going on. So, yeah, it presents a real challenge, that level of pain and that level of acuteness. And, yeah, was there ever a suggestion just go to hospital, just get an ambulance and check yourself in and get what you need done?

SPEAKER_02: 12:48

I went to hospital pretty, I think, the weekend that it happened, I did, yeah, look, I've kind of forced myself into a car, pushed the seat right back and had someone drive me to the hospital. But all they did was there was nothing that they could do. Imaging was shut as it was Margaret River on the weekend. And it was basically here are some muscle relaxants, see your doctor next week, which, yeah, was all they really could do. I wasn't really expecting anything. I think also the hard thing is working in the healthcare industry, I was way too understanding. I probably didn't advocate for myself enough in that point of like, oh, I understand. There's no, like I'm not able to see anyone. But, you know, also I feel like loss of, you know, that much feeling is also considered an emergency. And I think a lot of that was me just being like, oh, never mind, then I'm probably being silly. I'm obviously not in as much

SPEAKER_01: 14:07

pain as I think I am. Wow, yeah. Yeah, there is your sort of patient type that are actually experiencing a lot and downplay it versus the person who's, you know, and it's all subjective, isn't it, who has something relatively mild, but to them it's an escalated sense of drama and high drama presentation and I hate to say it, But sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the attention, rightly or wrongly. It's just a matter of life, isn't it? So there is a time when being a squeaky wheel is probably going to do you good. It's definitely something

SPEAKER_02: 14:46

that I am not. And naturally is something that I've always been like, no, I think if I approach something with a level head and a calm voice, you know, I will be able to speak clearly and more effectively and people will understand what I'm saying. Unfortunately, when it comes to pain and emergencies and getting people moving, sometimes that doesn't work and you just sound like you're very calmly asking for the world that and people won't respond to that

SPEAKER_01: 15:23

yeah that's that's a really key point it is really key point that your ability to compose yourself and regulate yourself in a high pain state almost works against you because people you know clinicians particularly who don't know you from a bar of soap say oh she's speaking and she's able to you know like she's not in that much pain like it Yeah. So it's a factor, isn't it? It's a really interesting factor. Yeah. So how's it progressed? Like, tell me more. What happened from there? I

SPEAKER_02: 15:55

think from that, it took probably, it's been, yeah, since 2022, so nearly three years of... Just really constant physical therapy. It was a lot of highs and lows, I will say. I think the beginning when there was no feeling and there was just... It felt like a mountain that just couldn't be climbed. It felt so hopeless and helpless. Having that sudden loss of, I guess, trust in your own body, not just being able to stand up and walk, but also there was no safe position. There was nothing other than I knew for a fact that sitting was going to hurt me. Sometimes the nerve pain would just kick off. for no reason. There was that a very, very clear and sudden disconnect between what I guess my, yeah, my, my own trust and my own, um, confidence in my ability to do really basic things. And that really affected me, um, for just a really long time. And it took a long time for me to even realize that that's what was happening, that there was that emotional disconnect of like well my body has betrayed me so I'm not going to treat it well anymore like we don't get the sympathy that we used to get um when we when we've got like a a bad pain day and it took a really long time for me to identify that that's what I was doing because that then hindered so much progress and so much healing because it just became a cycle of pain and um I guess guilt and shame of not being able to be independent. I can't drive myself places anymore. I can't stand in the kitchen and cook food for myself anymore. There was so much... like mental work that needed to be done that I just wasn't in the position to do. And so there was a lot of that. There was also the medication side of it, which I was put on a very steady, steadily increasing amount of painkillers that were really slowly deteriorating my mental faculties. I was on way too many drugs but I didn't know that at the time and for some reason it just sort of slipped through the cracks so it became a thing of not just that trying to recover while also probably not not having the tools to be able to physically recover, but also really struggling to keep my own mental faculties. My thinking was slowed down, my speaking was slowed down, and no one could notice it more than me.

SPEAKER_01: 19:14

Do you attribute that to the medication or to the pain itself, or both? I think both.

SPEAKER_02: 19:21

I definitely think that it was both, but I know that when I was finally able to start taking myself off of the medication, I did notice an improvement, that there was definitely a... It was definitely affecting it. So I think that the pain was definitely fatiguing me to the point where thinking was difficult. But, yeah, I think there was a combination of both. And so

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

when did you decide to start lowering your pain meds or what set of circumstances made you feel that that was a good decision or choice?

UNKNOWN: 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:06

So for me, I had probably my kidneys started to shut down. Wow. There was an instance, and again, I say I definitely slipped through the cracks when it came to regulating how much I was on of specific painkillers. But there was a specific incident where I was at home and I was very, very lucky that this happened the way it did. I don't remember a lot of this, a lot of this is secondhand stuff, but I was apparently, I was in the kitchen. I was, sorry, I was in bed. I was sitting up in bed trying to move and my housemate came in and started talking to me. And apparently I wasn't making any sense. I wasn't, I just wasn't with it. I was in a very altered state and my housemate I asked her about it the other night. Actually, she said that... Basically, I was fighting her and I was being quite aggressive, not physically but verbally, which anyone that knows me knows that's the furthest thing. I don't pick fights, but the way I was speaking to her was a way I had never spoken to her before. So that's when she knew something was definitely wrong. So she got me to a hospital and they were able to put me on some fluid because I was apparently incredibly dehydrated and I was in early kidney failure for that. Wow. And that happened twice. Wow. And again, I don't remember that and that's only recently I have now found I have a lot of organ issues now related to the damage that was done because of those medications. But I was told... recently that I had like kidney stones and gallstones and the doctor said, oh, I've got this report here for all of these things that we need to look at. And I was like, oh, there must be a mistake that I don't have. No one's ever told me about that. And I know they did, and it was during that time where I have no actual memory. I've lost patches of about two years' worth of memories because I do not remember a lot of what was happening during that time.

SPEAKER_01: 22:41

Wow. Gosh, these are the secondary things of back pain, aren't they? The toxicology on our internal organs from high-dose painkillers and anti-inflammatories and, yeah, the– you're kind of really highlighting is the mental you need good cognition if you're going to be equipped to be able to work your mind for you rather than have it not on board I mean you really you would understand how much you need your mind to take you where you need to be but if that's not fully charged that becomes almost even inaccessible to you as well it was it was

SPEAKER_02: 23:20

quite agonizing and I think it was it was almost like and I I described it to someone once as being, it was so claustrophobic because it was like I was trapped in my own body and my mind. I was looking out. I could hear the way I was speaking and I knew it wasn't how I was trying to sound. And I couldn't move, couldn't physically do the things that I wanted to do. My movements were off. My cognition was off. I was trapped inside and constantly fighting that panic and that claustrophobic feeling of like, physically I am helpless in anything that I do.

SPEAKER_01: 23:59

Yeah. Would you say the fact your legs gave way or, you know, that disconnect, and you said you didn't treat your body well because you almost felt betrayed by it, was it a bit of like self-anger or were you pissed off at your own body? Like was it a bit of that?

UNKNOWN: 24:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:20

It

SPEAKER_01: 24:20

was

SPEAKER_02: 24:21

definitely, yes. I think that personally I have, and I've spoken about this I think before, but I've always had a really complicated relationship with my body anyway. And I've struggled with dysmorphia on and off for a lot of my life. And so losing feeling in a limb when you already have trouble relating to your body, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so it was very much, you know, the not being able to not even show yourself the kindness that comes with, I need to heal. Healing requires space and kindness. And just that, I think it's a cycle, it's a pain cycle, but it's also a cycle of grief that comes. And if you aren't taking all the steps of that grief cycle, And you're only cycling through anger and shame. You're only going to get the results that come with being angry and ashamed all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 25:48

Do you think if you'd had a significant event that had triggered that, numbness and loss of power in your legs. Let's say you had a car accident and it made more sense to your brain about, oh, I've just been in a pretty traumatic car accident. That explains the degree of trauma, the degree of senses I'm feeling versus in your situation, it was kind of like innocuous, wasn't it? It wasn't a massive movement in the wrong direction. It was just this little perhaps that triggered a lot. I get why when you don't understand the trigger and the outcome or none of that makes sense that your sense of distrust in your body would be super high.

SPEAKER_02: 26:39

Yeah, and I think that's definitely calling me out on a super personal level. I am definitely one for dichotomous thinking and to not have something that clearly makes sense and is logical, like say a car accident that then caused the back injury. I would 100% know that I would have been so much nicer to myself. If I'd had that tangible thing that I could look at and say, this is what caused this immense pain that I'm in, as opposed to a perceived letdown at the time.

SPEAKER_01: 27:23

Yeah, I think that's very natural, isn't it? I mean, our brains are wide, our mind is wide for logic and when there is none, it creates a big vacuum of, you know, what the hell's going on and then it does what it does. It fills the gaps with worst-case feelings and, yeah, it's yuck. So, all right, keep talking. Let's bring on the good stuff now, Bea.

SPEAKER_02: 27:46

That's it, yeah.

UNKNOWN: 27:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 27:50

Yeah, I think once those sort of issues with like the kidney failure and everything started and then I started sort of working for movement and actually I basically had to at some point choose to work hard so there was a period of time where I needed to do the grief I needed to do the acceptance and it took longer than it should have because or not should have sorry it took longer than I wanted it to because it I just wasn't doing mentally I wasn't allowing myself to get better I think there was just a level of no I need to suffer and be in pain and the pain will make me stronger somehow which is a coping mechanism that rarely works. Um, but basically I had to make that choice. And then from there it was, I need to be able to get out of bed. Um, I, I was basically told that movement was key and because I wasn't able to get up and drive to the gym or go for a walk, I, um, had to decide, all right, I, I read an article where, um, people in solitary confinement um were able to cope better with their um the sort of keep their mental faculties going um would be to have a routine and it was a a concept of basically you know getting up in the morning walking to the other side of the cell and back no matter what happened that they did that for weeks at a time and it helped them keep Keep track of time. It helps them keep track of their surroundings and just, you know, give them almost a purpose for the morning. So I thought I would give that a go. So my goals for most mornings for a good few months was to be able to stand on both feet, like evenly. and then walk around the dining room table twice. And the reason I did it twice was because I could measure the days where I could only do it once. So I could know that whether the pain was going up or down. And so after doing that for a little bit, I was... able to see an improvement that came with just being able to move a little bit more. I wasn't able to drive for a good year. So I wasn't able to take myself to my appointments. So there were times when I couldn't get to physio or I couldn't get to any appointments really. So it was just... knowing that I could at least achieve that much in a day did improve my overall attitude of this is something I can do. This is something I can control. And if I don't do it, so if I don't do the two laps around the table, I can do the next best thing, which is one lap around the table, which is still better than no laps.

SPEAKER_01: 31:12

Yeah. It sounds like you set yourself up for a little bit of success full stop and and a bit of trackable progress which doesn't matter how small as long as there's some sense of progress i think that's very reinforcing to your psyche that something you're doing is useful and and and moving you in the direction you want to go rather than you know that complete state of disablement which can just go on forever

SPEAKER_02: 31:40

Yeah, and it definitely felt like it went on forever. But I think once I was able to do that and have that feeling of, like, look, this is what I can do. So then over the months I was able to then do a little bit more. I was able to get out a little bit and have more treatments. That's when I sort of started working more for movement. You guys were sort of able to see me at my absolute worst. And then also go from being horrifically overmedicated to very slowly detoxed to a manageable level. And I think there was a lot of grace that was given to me when it comes to doing admin while you're on those levels of painkillers. At least you had an excuse. Yeah. I could answer the phones. And again, it was measurable progress. So yeah, there were definitely, to the point where I am right now, where I'm able to walk and drive and look after myself again, which is something I never thought possible. There was a point where I was like, this is my entire life now. I will either walk with the cane that I had to carry around with me for so long, crutches. I will never be able to exercise. I know I put on a lot of weight being on just not being able to exercise and things like that. So there was just definite... Yeah, it's very easy for me to overlook

SPEAKER_01: 33:25

that. Can I ask, coming from the space of months of disablement and fear, huge fear of moving, I'm sure you had, understandably, what do you think a physio does well that will help you bridge that gap? Or what can they do poorly that will just send you running out the door so that you never come back?

SPEAKER_02: 33:55

I definitely, there was a physio that I saw many, many years ago. Um, cause I've been in and out of physios and things my whole life for just nondescript back pain. And there was one particular, um, person who basically I saw him, I think for three or four sessions and he, uh, yeah, on the fourth session was like, I don't really think I've got anything else to show you. So you don't need to make a follow-up appointment. And it's, it's very, um, things like that. I think, you know, sometimes, you know, you've got a client who won't do the work or, you know, you really don't have anything else to, to give them. But I think it all comes down to how you, um, convey that message, which I think sometimes as someone who works, uh, in the mental health space and has been in the mental health system for, you know, many, many years that, People are so afraid of being dismissed. And it is something that no one really talks about, but it is definitely something that that um i know i've had i mean i work for amazing physios who are so good at um being not even it's just kindness and and basic humanity but there is something that comes from people who just genuinely care enough to be like i'm not saying that we don't want you to come back i'm saying that you have made this amount of progress how do you want to move forward I've never seen anyone um uh Like at movement or really there aren't many physios I know that would look at someone and be like, don't come back. I don't want to. So I think it is, sorry, that's a really wrong way of answering that being able to give people options on how they want their next steps to look, whether it's, do you even want to keep coming back or how, like, what do you want? What do you want? I think a lot of choice is taken away from people at the moment, especially that, and it's really empowering. when someone actually gives you the reins when it comes to your own treatment.

SPEAKER_01: 36:16

I will give you a caveat there. If you want the reins, sometimes you come across patients who don't want to make any decisions about their own health outcomes. They want it spoon-fed to them and sometimes I've experienced from the other side, you know, when I throw it back to people and I say, look, you know, what do you want? Where are you, you know, I can give you these three choices, which one works for you? And, you know, they'll be indecisive and they're like, oh, you tell me. You tell me what I need. And so I think it's a dance, isn't it? It's really tricky sometimes. I think physios naturally want to instinctively, we look at someone and go, I know what they need. I want to do X, Y, Z, but it's all... our our projection onto them with often no recognition for where are they at you know do they have the energy for that are they fearful of that uh is that even aligned with what they want for themselves because sometimes they're not interested in getting stronger they just want um a bit of education about what's going on you know we make a lot of assumptions as therapists all the time about why this person is sitting in front of us myself included and And for a while there, I went back to the question. I always assumed people were here because they're in pain. And that was a really big assumption that I was getting wrong. Like some of them were like, when I said, oh, look, I'm just curious, why are you here? It was just like a revelation to me that my assumption was completely not what they were seeking. You know, most of them were seeking, um, of how they got to be in how they were or was there something that wasn't being seen or what were their movement choices or, you know, I just assumed they were just interested in the pain but, you know, communication I guess is what we're saying is so vital between a therapist and a client and it does take a bit of time to build that. And, yeah, I think... being dismissed often comes from a therapist's point of view of they just don't know what to do with this person and so it's better to just, from their perspective, send them somewhere else, which is... can be communicated a lot, lot better than see you later. I don't know what to do with you.

SPEAKER_02: 38:55

Yeah. I think the communication is probably more where I'm coming from than actually telling a client that doesn't want to be seen. But yeah, I think that look, communication for any practitioner, I think is the most important. It's the thing I look for when I see, when I see someone is someone who can communicate effectively, even if it's in a different way to me, but can still come across and hear what I'm saying. and also convey what they want as well.

SPEAKER_01: 39:25

And it's so interesting, you know, I'm just reflecting on that. We don't get taught that at uni. We get taught the mechanics. We get taught all of the exercises, assessments. But, you know, that art form of communication is so vital for getting good outcomes. So I hear now a word on the street is that you're doing Pilates, doing it really well, and that you are almost– enjoying the feeling of pushing yourself into muscle soreness, which is a huge leap for someone who's gone from where you were. So tell me, what do you think the big leaps have been for you? What are the big aha moments that have made you go, oh, actually this is safe, this is okay to be doing?

SPEAKER_02: 40:19

Yeah, look, I think that there was a point earlier this year where I happened to be at work at Movement Solutions and something, again, my back, there was no rhyme or reason to it, but my back went again and I lost, I suddenly, a spasm came on and I hadn't experienced that in almost a year. The numbness returned in one leg. And I was, again, very fortunate that I was surrounded by physios the day that happened. And it was more just the immediate fear that gripped me when that happened because I was just walking across the floor and it just suddenly grabbed me and my leg gave out and I sort of fell a little bit. And I was, you know, helped onto like one of the beds and I just kind of lay there in my sort of, fear for a while while the spasm stopped but it was sort of you know chatting to some of the girls as well like came in to check on me and just waiting for it to die down a little bit and just sort of like oh, it's happening again and the world is ending again. This is the sudden devastation that hits when all the hard work goes out the window, that sort of thing. But within, I think, two days, it went away and the feeling came back and I was able to go back to work and everything was fine. And I think there was just that moment of, like, maybe I can, maybe I am strong enough to overcome the times when this happens. And I think there was just a moment, it was a moment of very rare confidence in my body of like, oh, maybe I'm able to have these days and also not have them. And so that sort of stuck with me for a really long time afterwards of like just how quickly I bounce back compared to you know, the two years that I lost to it last time. And so that's when I started, yeah, doing a little bit more Pilates and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 42:44

Could that have been that you– it was a familiar experience and so therefore there was less– well, it's a double-edged sword, isn't there? There's the fear of, oh, my God, this is where we're going again versus, well, I've been down this track before. I know last time what got me better was– getting out of bed and doing some walking. I think sometimes there's the fear, but there's also, I've got through this before, confidence. And whichever one wins out is the rate at which you progress. Because I think it takes a lot of mind control to not let your mind go back into that. And it takes a lot of decisiveness and confidence to say, no, I've been here before. I know what to do. I can get through this. I've got some strength in me this time around. There's a familiarity. You know, that whole, it's an internal game, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 43:39

Yeah, it's a cycle. It is a constant. It's almost like, and it sounds morbid, but it isn't, but it is the grief cycle. And it's always coming out on the positive. You will always cycle through the feelings that come with losing something. And it's kind of like, for me anyway, losing, feeling was a really, really big thing. And it's something that is very profoundly affects my mind for however many reasons. So having to very quickly accept, oh, I've lost something.

SPEAKER_03: 44:16

And

SPEAKER_02: 44:17

then being like, well, that's okay. That's sad. But also- it'll come back or it won't. And it's just going through the acceptance of whatever is happening. Um, and I think that for me, something like radical acceptance is something that I always, I will preach it until I am blue in the face. It's always here. This is your reality. This is what's happening, whether you like it or not, it's uncomfortable and it's yucky, but this is what's happening. And also, um, Let's move forward and find a positive to focus on. Let's continue recovery because recovery is entirely within my control. It's entirely possible and it's in view. And that's something I need to remind myself of a lot because for a long time it wasn't in view. I didn't think it was possible. So it's that sort of thing. The positive that comes with these flare-ups and things like that as well is that I know what bad pain feels like. I know that this is dangerous pain I shouldn't work through as opposed to the muscle soreness that comes from the micro tears of building muscle. Yeah, it's a good pain because it's building and it's a good thing. So it's being able to... follow that experience with that information.

SPEAKER_01: 45:47

Yeah, I think being able to feel the difference in the sensations and understand one is a green light, one is a red light, and then, as you say, having the radical acceptance, all right, I'm going to red light right now. And as you're talking about, you know, there's grief because you've lost. I always think, yes, you've lost but you've gained. You gain space and time to be still. It may not be what you want right now, but I always think when something's heavy on one side and my mind's only perceiving one side, I know the opposite is also there too. I kind of go, I'm feeling grief, I'm feeling loss, what have I gained here? Because it is that neutralizing of perspective that balances the mind so that it can have radical acceptance. I think it's so hard to have radical acceptance when your mind only is perceiving the upside or the downside or the positive. And, you know, working towards objectivity is really a trained skill, which Demartini's work really, which is super valuable. All right. Top three tips for someone in back pain. For someone where you were in that bed all those many months ago. What would you like to share with someone who's probably hopefully not listening from their bed right now? Hopefully, but if you are. If you are, that's something to hold on to that might just get them out of the bed and walking around the table. But, yeah, how would you speak to them? What would you be saying? Three tips if you can come up with it.

SPEAKER_02: 47:26

Three things. Look, I think that I've probably said all of them already, but something that I really loved And it's something that I struggled with for a really long time. Someone said to me like, oh, you need to have some inspirational quotes or words that you love and that inspire you and put them up around the house. And I'm just not good at that, at remembering things and at looking at things and being like, you know, putting a quote up and looking at it every day and feeling inspired by it. But so I had to really search for something that actually had meaning to me that I could actually use and something that I ended up with was, um, always, or not always, but I guess try to do the next best thing, which is something I now live by pretty heavily. And it's basically just, and it's the thing of like, I am aiming to do two laps around the table, but I, if I, if not, then I'll only do one or I really struggled to eat healthy because I couldn't cook for myself so you know I ate a bag of chips for dinner but tomorrow I'm gonna have porridge you know it's the it's just tempering that fear of I've done something detrimental that I can't recover from and I think that's you know when you're trying to um recover from pain and stuff like that it's so hard to look after yourself and sometimes you make less than stellar choices when it comes to your health because it's hard and so if you make a decision which is just like I didn't do my exercises today and now I feel terrible and you're in that shame spiral because you're not going to get better if you don't do your exercises um next best thing I can stretch my arms while I'm in bed and I and then I have done I exercise so that's yeah doing the next best thing did save me a lot of sanity over over that um that's number one number two radical acceptance Just, it's

SPEAKER_03: 49:46

something,

SPEAKER_02: 49:48

yeah, it is something that I think should be taught in schools. It is a really important skill, I think. It's just basically being able to acknowledge your own, acknowledging reality, whether or not it's uncomfortable, it doesn't, or if you don't like it or you want it to change, it doesn't matter. It's recognizing your own feelings within your reality without judgment or trying to change how you are feeling about something. It literally observing reality and how you feel in that reality. And from that point on, you can get to acceptance, which then helps you to focus on what you can do next.

SPEAKER_01: 50:27

Yeah. I was going to say the order of those two is almost radical acceptance allows you to do your next step, which is, you know, take one step in that direction. Yeah. Cool. And number three?

SPEAKER_02: 50:39

Routine. Routine. I

SPEAKER_03: 50:42

think that

SPEAKER_02: 50:44

mentally I think look not people live in chaos and people sometimes thrive in chaos and that is totally fine I'm not saying that we should schedule every aspect of our day but I think that it is so important for our own brains for cognitive function to have things to focus on have goals no matter how small to be able to just sort of keep your I guess the helplessness that you can sometimes feel when you're in that pain cycle of there's nothing I can do. I'm in constant pain. Well, today, you know, today's Monday. Monday is the day that I attempt to unload the dishwasher. You know, it is literally just a small thing that you do every day that helps your brain to see and form patterns. And then it helps the brain, I guess, the actual function of forming patterns. then becomes stronger, which then helps you later on. I think routine is really important when it comes to just overall cognitive ability, which is something that I, um, The fact that I felt that I had lost cognitive ability for so long was something that was really hard for me to cope with. For a long time I felt like the only thing I had going for me was that my ability to, I guess, speak and think and be able to cope with however many things that were thrown at me was my ability to be able to rationalise and logic my way out of things. And to not have access to that was so debilitating. And yeah, just having those little things that I could do to strengthen that ability was I think something that really, really helped.

SPEAKER_01: 52:42

Yeah, it's funny. I'm having all sorts of thoughts hearing you say that. Some of them maybe you won't like, but I'll float them because I know you. I probably wouldn't with someone I didn't know. But it's almost like, you know, that your cognitive ability to logic and articulate is a great tool way to avoid feeling and being immobile in a bed you can't move your way out of it you can't think your way out of it it's almost like you were set up for a cesspit of high emotional experiencing which Looking back, was there any value in that for you? I'm curious. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02: 53:34

But I think that my dissonance when it comes to my own emotions is, I think, a powerful tool and just a real awful thing to deal with sometimes. But yes, the whole thing that I said earlier about having the dysmorphia and then not being able to relate to and essentially losing the limbs for a really long time and not really being able to cope with this sudden anger and shame that I had for my own body that I had been able to, I guess, push away for so long. It really forced me to look at it in the eye. And again, it was radical acceptance. It's not a comfortable thing. It very rarely is. Being able to look something like your own, I guess, demons so directly and realise, oh wow, there is a whole section of me that I have not, that I have neglected to look after. And now it's, I'm alone with it for an extended period of time. So there was definitely some good that came out of it, but I would say that there are much healthier, safer ways of confronting those feelings.

SPEAKER_01: 54:58

Well, we can say that too, but I have a firm belief that the body knows you better than you know you. And if that's what it took for you to go into those places, then that's what it was going to take. I think the lesson is, If we could teach everyone to be, from a young age, so happy to sit in their own emotions and to sense and feel and even the heavy ones, not run from them, not distract from them, just to feel them, then maybe there are no need for the big disabling episodes in life. But I don't know many of us like that. I think most of us don't. naturally avoid feeling uncomfortable things because you know we a we weren't taught the value of them and b they just feel uncomfortable so it does take a lot of self uh awareness and connection to be able to sit and experience uncomfortable stuff and um yeah i just wonder now what how would you sum up your relationship with your body now have you reached a space of total 100 percent love for this physical body that you live in or is it a work in progress

SPEAKER_02: 56:09

i wish that's how it worked um i think that i could best describe it as more of a we have a i have a much better working relationship with my body now um i probably listen to i'm definitely still not great at at listening like at the moment i'm like this this week i am forcing myself to uh rest and it is incredibly difficult. I've gone from doing sort of exercise for five to six days a week down to, you know, two this week because I injured myself a little bit last week. So it is finding balance, but it is, I guess, that's improvement in itself of listening to the signals that my body gives me.

SPEAKER_01: 56:56

My wish for you over time is that you actually, you know, come to love it for all that it allows you to do and personally I think one of the best ways to develop that connection and love of our physical vessel is to is through the senses you know I certainly when I was working on it would sit and acknowledge the colors that my eyes could see and just you know feel grateful for the fact I had eyes and then I'd feel the sun on my body and go oh my god how good does that feel or you know my bare feet on cool green grass and how lovely does that feel and my taste buds and oh my God, the pleasure, like really ramped up this understanding that through my senses is how my body was designed to feed me pleasure, which was, I think when you've been in a lot of pain, that's such a beautiful new experience to understand that your body isn't just a pain vessel. It can give you so much pleasure if you create space and time to focus on that, you know, and the senses are touch, taste, all of it. Sound, beautiful music, you know, that pleasure connection is such a vital way to develop love for the physicality of our experience. That's the only way. And moving eventually. You know, I get it through movement in nature with music outdoors. You know, it feeds my love of my physical body because it allows me to do the things that bring me great pleasure. But if you can't physically move to get that even in stationary being there's ways to build to that so um yeah anyway that's that's all that came to mind well b final question first up just thank you for being so honest and raw with your experience it sounds like hell on earth and um it's a real testament to you that you're where you are now on your journey and obviously it's still going um And that's okay. Things take as long as they take. And as long as you feel progress, you're winning. But what would you, when I say bulletproof back, what is that, what comes up in your mind when I say that phrase? Bulletproof back.

SPEAKER_02: 59:14

I

SPEAKER_01: 59:14

think

SPEAKER_02: 59:15

that when you think of something that's bulletproof, people often think of something that deflects bullets. But really, Bulletproof jackets don't necessarily deflect. They absorb the main impact and repel the bullet itself. So I think that having a bulletproof back means having something that can absorb the impact of whatever it is you're doing, whether it's exercising, running, whether you have an injury or if something just happens as they can do sometimes. And of being able to absorb that and then you know

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:03

withstand and keep moving Great. That's a nuanced version. I love asking that question because, you know, it just always highlights to me when we say words, how people hear them or perceive them is so unique to who we are in our experience of life and, yeah, it's one of my little games I like to play. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. So thank you again for carving out some time. All our pets and animals behaved and, yeah, I wish you well on your journey And, yeah, any final closing thoughts you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:44

Yeah, definitely thank you for having me. I think that, look, if there's anyone out there that is listening from their bed at the moment, I think it's really important just to hear that you're being, that, you know, you're definitely not alone, even though it definitely may feel like that.

UNKNOWN: 1:01:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:04

and that it's entirely possible to

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:07

take a step forward. I love that, Bea. That's perfect. I think we wrap it up on that. And that step forward can be as tiny as it needs to be. But it's the decision to make it that I think is the empowering part as well. And it takes, yeah, I had a new reframe on the word discipline today. It's funny. I've always struggled with that word. It felt very heavy to me, discipline, and it felt like depriving yourself of something. But I was reflecting on it today and I see it now as having the discipline to take energy from something that's sapping you and invest it in something that's moving you to where you want to be and doesn't have to be rigid, doesn't have to be heavy, doesn't have to be over the top. It's a bit like your one small step. It's like that conscious decision that, I am where I am, but I want to invest my energy into being in a different place in the future. And what energy can I take now and invest in that? And that to me is discipline. That's the decision that I want to move forward with. from where I am and what's my one thing, what's my one little investment of that energy. And it could be, like you said, it could be one little walk around the table and it doesn't matter if you don't do the two, you've still invested energy in something. It could even just be a thought, you know, it could be the energy of just directing your thoughts back into possibility rather than the past. All of those things take energy. Your idea about the ritual is to stop the mental need to have energy to make decisions. All those three things you mentioned were about energy management, which is great. I think when you're in pain, you need to do whatever's possible to Have energy flow without effort. And, yeah, I think you've really found ways to do that consciously or unconsciously. But, yeah, I'm digressing again. So let's wrap it up. Thanks, Bea. I'll see you at work. One other thing I wanted to mention. I really like having someone on the front desk who has had their own lived experience of pain. How do you experience that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:42

As in how do I experience the experience of being on the desk? More

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:49

can you see when people come in in pain that you see them. You know, like you really see them because you've been there. I think there's something in that that is,

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:02

yeah.

UNKNOWN: 1:04:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:03

I definitely, yeah, there are definitely, I think, and I'm sure everyone has their own, the things that sort of ping in their mind when they meet people, especially the other physios. But yeah, I think there's definitely certain things that I have recognised in people that have come in in the past that I am, yeah, everyone's got their own thing that they're more susceptible to or they're more sensitive to and that helps build the empathy with that person and that I know it's something I've always trusted in with my sort of work because it helps me to provide the right kind of care to the people that I want to care for, if that makes sense. As in I care for everyone that comes in. But I know with mental health and sort of me actually working in that space, I've always, there are certain people that I have met where I'm like, this is why I am in this. face this is why I did the training and the TAFE and everything like I wanted to help these people because these are my people kind of thing and yeah I think that's um something that i i love about admin is being able to use that

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:21

because people do walk in in all states don't they and um i just think sometimes we even forget how how walking into a new space when you're in pain is a big deal you know like it takes a lot and if you're not greeted with a smile or if you're not given some direction about you know where to be or it's okay to wait or something it's just just some acknowledgement that you've walked in, you know. Yeah, I go to different various places and I'm sometimes pleasantly surprised and sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, there's no humanity here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:57

I think there was something that I, we did a couple of modules of it in TAFE, but it's also something that I was like, oh, oh, I understand now. If more places did this, I would feel so much more, I guess, appreciated as a person. But it's the whole concept of, like, having neutral um like not waiting areas but just like areas that you walk into so for people who are like on the spectrum or um i people with like sensory issues things like that like i know that there are certain clients when they come in who i happen to know are autistic or things like that like i'll make sure that i haven't lit any candles or like you know for um you know is it too bright in here will i turn the big lights off like things like that and i think that I know that a lot of places, like you walk into, I think, is it APM? There's a few places that cater to people with disabilities and things like that where I'm like, this is too bright. This is not a welcoming place. This is setting me off, let alone whoever else walks in. So it's like, and that translates to people as well, I think. I think walking in and seeing and talking to someone at a reception desk that you can Intel not even has to understand, but just empathizes and is aware as opposed to thank you for coming. Please sit down. Like that was sort of that. Yeah. So that's the sort of thing we like to do. I like to be able to, Pick up on that. It's like a weird dopamine rush for me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:36

I think you pick up on it really well. But I think you pick up on it really well just because of your lived experience, you know. Yeah. We're all better at something when we've been through it. So that's the gaining. There we go. There's another for the gain on your loss. Anyway, thanks for your chat and I'll let you get on with your day and I'll see you when I'm looking at you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:57

Yeah, next time you come in.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:59

Yeah. See you, Bea. All right. Thanks, Madsie.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:02

See ya.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:07

As we wrap up another empowering episode of Building Bulletproof Backs, remember that your journey to healing is within reach. For more invaluable resources and guidance, visit www.bulletproofbacks.com. Dive deeper into Marion's transformative approach to banishing back pain by exploring her book, From Broken to Bulletproof, Unconventional Ways to Banish Back Pain. Discover the Bulletproof Backs System, a holistic framework that integrates mindset, emotional until next time stay resilient and keep moving forward